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Red Annelid vs. red midge larva

 
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mcgurtis



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 23
Location: Farmington

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:54 am    Post subject: Red Annelid vs. red midge larva Reply with quote

Ok so I hear other posters on this site report fish being caught on "red annelid's". I have been under the impression, belief, etc. that the San Juan does not have annelids naturally, but the fly that is imitated is the midge larva. I am not a scientist and have nothing to back up my belief other than an old guide buddy. I just wanted to open a debate about it to get your ideas. Do the Juan have red annelids or red midge larva? Does the name even matter because the tie is the same?

Have a nice day
Curtis
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twmack



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 36
Location: El Paso

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The name "Red Annelid" is a generic name. It is used loosely to describe any red color aquatic worm from the phylum annelida either from the class polychaetes or oligochaete. The red larvae that they talk about is the red colored larva of the subfamily tanypodinae of the family chironomidae ( or midges as we generally call them). The thing is when both are present in the waters, like the San Juan you can use the same patterns to represent both. They are very similar when they are in the early stages of life. Unless you have a microscope and some biology education you can't tell the difference.
I am not a biologist and it has been some years since I took biology, micro biology and genetics but I have kick up and screened the silt and seen both annelids and larvae. You can tell they different because the red larvae will be about 2 to 20 mm and the annelids will be bigger (ranging from 20mm to well over 100mm). That's what the San Juan Worm represents the larger adults. In smaller patterns like the "Red Annelid", tubing on red hook can be used to represent the smaller worms and the midge larvae.
I hope this helps a little because I know I am not that qualified biologist. You may wanted to screen for these and then take them to UNM (or other college) and get the biology department identify them. If you do you have to work fast because they will change color as they die.
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mcgurtis



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 23
Location: Farmington

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the info. You learn something new everyday. I will keep tying them and calling them midge larvae even though the fish might be trying to eat an annelid. oh well as long as they hit it I'll reel them in.

Curtis
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wogger



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 48
Location: Western Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:11 am    Post subject: annelid/larvae Reply with quote

twmack,

Great post!! I have met many people on the Juan that mistake midge larvae for annelids. Even when poeple are posting here the talk about size 22 annelids when they are actually fishing midge larvae.

Entomology is foreign to most. Another example of mistaken entomology is up on the North Platte/Grey's Reef. All of the shops and guides there fish a "rock worm". They use a red annelid pattern for this. A rock worm is actually a caddis.

Anyway you put alot of effort into your post so Right On!!
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Nothing Makes a Fish Bigger Than Almost Being Caught!
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herefishy



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 146
Location: Las Cruces, NM

PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How come SJ worms don't work that well anymore? Or is that just me?
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twmack



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 36
Location: El Paso

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many factors that might be at play here. Time of year and the flow have a lot to do with it. In the summer after the high flows, the water is clear and low. Throwing a huge worm out there will scare the crap out of them. I have seen them dart away from those worms. In the Spring during high water, the water is deep and cloudy with lots of junk being flushed off the bottom. This is the best time to use The San Juan Worm. Those annelids are being kick up off the bottom and are easy pickings. In the fall/winter after the lake turns over, the river has alot of junk from the bottom of the lake. Visiblity is bad so those worms are easier to see. If the water is clear I would suggest not using the San Juan Worm. Hope this helps.

Tim
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