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how to fill my fly book

 
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mad_skillz86



Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Location: farmington

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: how to fill my fly book Reply with quote

hi im new to fly fishing and fly tying i was wondering what would be a bunch of good bugs to put into my fly box ive got some basics (midges and some loopwings and foam wings ) but i was wondering if i could get some help for filling my book so that i can have a good assortment of flies and not a bunch of "fisherman catching " flies....

also i have trolled the web and found a ton of good sites for the san juan including mike mora and others should i just put the bugs from these sites or should there be some " go to" flies and some flies that work all the time compared to some that are just hot once and a great while.... im planning on fishing mostly the upper river ...(cable upper flats and around there) but my other favorite spot is down around abes shop

a little help would be very appreciated..
thanks
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FishnPreach



Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Paluxy Texas

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you start filling your fly box with fly's off of this website then you will be more than well on your way. Considering Mike's time on this river and his background and his recommendations come highly rated!!!

I am not a guide, nor do I spend near as much time on this river as many others in this forum do, however I have tied quite a few of Mikes fly's and fish them as recommended by him and well known guides, and fish-a-plenty are caught. Mike Mora has done fishermen coming to the SJ a great blessing by providing accurate fly patterns and the recipe's for tying them. Use them!

Now, having the fly in the box, and knowing how to fish that same fly is something completely different. This is where I will defer the remainder of my time to guys like Ryno, Mike, Bubba, midgeaholic and Dryfly, to name a few. Let me just say, I have been reading what they have been writing on here for 4 or 5 years, and I have gained much knowledge and insight from them.

If Mike was to take the past...oh 5 or 6 years of comments from this discussion board and compile it into a book, it would have to become the definitive go-to manual for anyone wanting to fish the SJ and fish it well.

Thats my two-cents worth, from a fly-fisherman thankful to all the guys who give freely of their knowledge and expertise on this board.

Thanks guys!!!
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Ryno



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with FishnPreach about fly recipes contained on Mike's site. They are good and cover all the basics, and then some.

If you fish mostly the upper river, then you will want to focus mainly on midge patterns. As a beginning tier, if I were you, I would focus mainly on mastering midge larvae patterns. These are typically fairly basic patterns--many just simply thread; but, they are a big part of the fishes diet on the Juan. One tip on tying larvae (and other flies also) that I did not appreciate when I first started tying: pay close attention to each thread wrap. This may seem obvious, but on size 22 and smaller flies, sloppy spacing between thread wraps is noticeable.

Consider investing in an assortment of midge larvae lace. You can use it to make midge larvae, but also the small blood worms that are in the Juan. You can buy it, in various colors, at most any fly shop or on-line.

Consider, also, buying some red hooks to make princesses and red-hots. These are simple ties and can be effective as your top fly in a two-fly rig.

You might also try your hand at tying some griffith's gnats. They are a fairly simple pattern, and they can be effective in the bigger sizes (aka "dead chicken") when the fish are up sipping midge clusters.

It is always fun catching fish on a fly that you tied. Don't forget: fly tying is as much of an art as it is a science. So enjoy it!
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FishnPreach



Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Paluxy Texas

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ryno,

Do you have a location for the "dead chicken?" Is that just a larger size griffith gnat?

Thanks
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Ryno



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FishnPreach wrote:
Ryno,

Do you have a location for the "dead chicken?" Is that just a larger size griffith gnat?

Thanks


The infamous "dead chicken" is a griffith's gnat tied on a size 10 hook.

The first time a buddy of mine showed me this fly about a decade or so ago, I thought he was crazy. Until we saw some risers and I saw him start taking fish on it! It is especially deadly at dusk, when the fish are rising and visibility is not as good.
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mad_skillz86



Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Location: farmington

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

awesome guys thanks for all the incite ive tyed a few of a few patterns and am slowly getting better at all around as of course some are easier then others... just wondering and its probably your secret i was wondering about some " go to " flies. you know the flies that always catch just one or two and seam to always work ... i completely understand not telling your secret fly but me being extremely new to this sport i would love to just get out and really catch a few and learn to use this fly at this time and this fly at another time
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twmack



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 36
Location: El Paso

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like Ryno stated earlier get some red hooks like the Daiichi 1273 in #18's to #22's . You can tie Princesses and many different Red Larvae patterns. These are my go patterns. Rick Takahashi is putting a book together on midge patterns that should be awesome so be on the lookout for it.

Tim
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FishnPreach



Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Paluxy Texas

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Go To Fly's"

I believe Mike Mora invested a great deal of time giving his views of what fishes best where, if you go to the website link for the SJ River Map. On that website he explains the sections of the river and then some of what works best in that section.

My go to's are definitely going to change based on where at I am on the river, in relation to how close or far from the dam I am. Colder water, things get smaller...for the most part.

For me, the zebra midge in black, grey, olive, brown and even cream and the RS2 in the same colors, with some of my own variations.

I think one of the greatest helps for me when I was starting to tie flys however was one I read on here several years ago, What I gleaned from it, is that
Quote:
there are no FAT fly's!!!
I read that, and then went back and looked over some of my first fly's I tied, and by and large they were all too thick. Don't over-do-it when you build up the bodies and heads of your fly's. It is easy to do that when your tying a size 24 midge and using dubbing.

Oh, and Have Fun!!! Hope to see you on the river someday.
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Ryno



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of these post have been good on this topic. After reading through them again, it got me to thinking about some things I overlooked (and still do to some extent) when I first began exploring the Juan.

We all know matching the hatch is important, but here are some other considerations for you mad_skillz86 in seeking to tame the Juan:

1) First and foremost on this tailwater, is presentation. This is a given, I know, as does everyone else, but a drag-free drift is a MUST in most situations. Regardless of how well you match the hatch, if you don't present the fly naturally, your simply not going to hook up. This includes mending properly, having a little-bit of slack on the water while you are drifting (this aspect took me a bit to fully appreciate), and not casting too far.

2) Indicator depth. If I am not picking up fish in an area where I know there should be feeding fish, the first thing I do is adjust my indicator depth. Determinning where the fish are at in the water column is absolutely crucial: there are so many insects floating through the water that, for the most part, these trout do not need to move up or down to take your fly; they will simply just wait for the next bug to float down. Always check indicator depth before changing flys, unless you are certain that they are keying in on a particular hatch that you are not presenting. General rule of thumb: the length from you indicator to you top fly should be about 1 to 1.5 times the depth you are fishing (sometimes if I have an emerger as my bottom fly, and I know they are keying in on the emerger, then I will even shorten up my length to just under the depth of what I am fishing).

3) Weight amount. This is really just a corollary of # 2 above. Weight effects how quickly the flies move down in the water column. Philosophies vary on this one: some like to fish little weight, if any. I typically start fairly heavy b/c I like to get my flies down in the water column quickly. Of course, if you are fishing shallow water, then adjust accordingly; but, if you are not picking up any fish after adjusting your indicator and you know where the fish are at in the water column, try adding/subtracting some weight.

4) Fly size. Color. These two are so closely related, that they "tie" in terms of priority. Size is very important. You can be fishing with a good-looking and correct pattern, but if it is too big, your probably not going to be succesful. If the fish are keying in on a size 24 bug, you can probably get awy with a 22 or a 26; but more than one size difference is probably too much. Next to fly size, color is the next aspect I pay attention to.


All of this is simply to say that, while your go to fly is important to have, there are many other aspects that are at play in successfully fooling those trout. After all, it is the complexities of this sport that is its most attractive quality.

Enjoy! Very Happy
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barelfly



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 40
Location: albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

try this link and look around, there are four or five guys that have some killer midge patterns for you to tie...

http://www.danica.com/flytier/

do a search for midge, that will help.
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Jeremy
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Midgeaholic



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 123
Location: Albuquerque

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Some other considerations for tying SJ flies. Reply with quote

Gary Borger wrote about his three greatest considerations in tying and fly selection these are: Size,Shape, and Color in that order. This is perhaps the greatest piece of information I have absorbed in all of my tying years. Another great habit to get into, is to get samples, especially in a tailwater situation. Samples can very often divulge great insight into your personal tying style. Also, pay close attention to the materials you use, this can often be the key to catching lots of fish. midgeaholic
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mad_skillz86



Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 24
Location: farmington

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i love all the information you all are giving me its definatly going to help me out in the long run.... i was also wondering about tying....what are some important tips that can help me tye with more quality and make everything easier...just hints on how to tye would be great also...thanks
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Ryno



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for fly tying tips:

First things first: always crimp down the barb before you start tying! One of the most frustrating experiences is crimping down the barb at the river (or at the tying bench after you've finished the fly) and having the hook point break before you even get to use it. It doesn't happen very often, but do yourself a favor and "pre-crimp."

Thread wrap spacing, as I mentioned earlier, is important and often over-looked.

Don't build up too much thread near the eye of the hook. The portion of the shank near the eye is where the majority of your materials are secured, so be sure not to place too much thread here early in the tying process. Otherwise, you will end up with a bulky and un-natural looking head.

Have plenty of light. It is amazing what a difference good quality light makes in tying.

On flies where you want a tapered body, spin your bobbin several times until your thread is well twisted. This will add to the tapered look.

On flies that involve dubbing, take the amount of dubbing that you think you need, and cut it in half. You probably still have too much, but at least it won't be quite as bad.

Also, to help apply dubbing, apply saliva to your finger tips before twisting the dubbing on. Some also use Carmex, but I try not to use too many foreign smelling substances on my flies.

Become friends with your hair stacker--especially on flies that have deer or elk hair. This will add volumes to the appearance of your fly.

That should get the list started. I'll post more if anymore come to mind.
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bubba smith



Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 33
Location: San Juan River

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MS86,
Everything that the guys are saying is pretty much right on, even Ryno which is kind of surprising, as he is an old guy who cann't see very well or stay upright in the river real well.
The one thing I have found that has helped the most on tying small tailwater flies is thread size.
Benichcii thread sz 12 available at The Fly Shop out of redding Ca. buy it.

Bubba Smith
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Ryno



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bubba smith wrote:
MS86,
Everything that the guys are saying is pretty much right on, even Ryno which is kind of surprising, as he is an old guy who cann't see very well or stay upright in the river real well.


Ha! I think you got the wrong Ryno again. This isn't "old crusty" Ryno (as you referred to him in another forum), but a slightly younger one! Very Happy
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