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PrettyFair



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Shoreview, Minnesota

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:54 pm    Post subject: fingernail polish Reply with quote

Has anyone ever used or heard of anyone using fingernail polish (Bright Red) on small nymph hooks to mimic the red annelids that catch fish on the San Juan?
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mcgurtis



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 23
Location: Farmington

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject: fingernail polish Reply with quote

I was using "hard as nails" for head cement for a while, then I took TJ's fly tying class. He said the fish will smell it and run away from your fly. Take it for what its worth, I just bought some size 22 red diachi hooks at the sportmans warehouse in Alb. Thats what I use. Maybe some of these fly tying "MacGyver's" know a better way. I will be interested as well.
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riorancher



Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Rio Rancho, NM

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try wrapping the hook with red Flashabou or other red tinsel similar to the Disco Midge. Another way is to wrap the hook with red thread then apply 2 coats of water based head cement similar to the Red Midge Larva. Both flys are shown on ifly4trout.com under Fly Patterns. The idea that a trout can smell finger nail polish is interesting. I think they probably can pick up the vapors from a fresh coat of finger nail polish, but if you let it cure for a couple of weeks in the open air I'll bet the vapors disappear. But then I'm no expert, just an old fart who has painted a few red barns back in the day.
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twmack



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 36
Location: El Paso

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read an article several years ago about what fish smell. I believe the article was in Fly Fisherman magazine. It talked about guys rubbing WD-40, Power Bait scent and other stuff on their flies to trigger strikes. Even Cortand made a floating spray that was scented in a mayfly scent. The article did says that in some cases it did help. It also mentioned stuff used as head cement could repel fish. It did mention that putting a fresh coat of head cement the night before a day of fishing could limit your chances of catching fish. They had conducted tests with fish in a tank and the flies with fresh coats of head cement seem to repel the fish. The flies with no cement had fish take them. This has been one of the oldest debates. If trout can't smell then why do they make tons of bait with scent? I do believe that trout can smell and if you also believe, leave the head cement off or give the flies enough time to dry and not stink.

Tim
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PrettyFair



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Shoreview, Minnesota

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used red thread and red foil to make the little red annelids that fish so well on the San Jaun. In fact, there is a certain speciality box of assorted chocolates that I get for my wife about once a year, that has two pieces wrapped in red foil that is perfect for these annelids. Don't tell her about the foil. But the other day I tried some fingernail polish on a 22 hook, and the profile and color that resulted seemed to be perfect. That's why I asked about using the polish.

As far as the sense of smell in water is concerned, who can forget the moment in "Jaws" when the sheriff, after chumming for hours, looks back at the shark and says, " I think we need a bigger boat". Also, the fact that salmon find their own very spawning location by "smelling" the waters.

But in this case, fishing on the San Jaun, I have a question about how the trout detects the odor that comes from the nymph as the hook moves through the water.

Let's say you are on a float trip in Texas hole. You have engaged an outstanding guide, and the guide has set up a perfect drift. You place your nymph in the water and it sinks straight down under your indicator and you are in the perfect dead drift. Everything attached to your line and the boat is moving exactly the same speed as the water. Twenty feet down stream at the ideal depth, a trout awaits to recieve your nymph. How close does the nymph get to the trout before the smell gets to the fish? It seems to me that the hook and the smell get to the fish at about the same time.

Any comments?
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Midgeaholic



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 123
Location: Albuquerque

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Scents Reply with quote

There is no doubt that fish do have a very good sense of smell. This goes for insect repellent, sunscreen and anything else that is not of their natural environment. I for one am very careful to get those scents that are abnormal out of the equation. Then there are those who wish to use scents to attract fish. This, for a true flyfisherman is unethical and goes against the entire philosophy of fly fishing. There are products out on the market that will mask or eliminate what is called man scent. When I sit down to tie, I am very careful not to introduce anything that may be offensive to the fish or unnatural. midgeaholic
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mcgurtis



Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 23
Location: Farmington

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: smells Reply with quote

I love the "Jaws" recall! I agree with you that the smell would be pretty insignificant. I was just passing on what I was taught. I personally feel that definition of shape, size and color have the most to do with catching fish on your fly. Good luck. I have enjoyed the dialog.
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Midgeaholic



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 123
Location: Albuquerque

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:07 am    Post subject: scents revisited Reply with quote

There is material from Michigan state university fisheries dept specifically on what trout can detect in the water in ppm so on and so forth. The whole ball of wax seems to center on the salmonoids being able to detect abnormal or un-natural scents in water as opposed to whats in their natural environment, in other words I don't think they can smell nymphs or other insects. However, this was largely dependent on the size of their environment and the amount of water. I do think that a trouts ability to see and what they see is of far more interest to the fly tyer than scent. As per Gary Borger. I am also enjoying the dialog. midgeaholic
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barelfly



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 40
Location: albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not only does it give a cool, realistic appearance, it also makes your fly more durable. I tie my thread midges and coat the head with this. Try the different colors UTC offers for various thread larva and you'll have some good flies (olive utc thread on a red hook Wink )
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PrettyFair



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Shoreview, Minnesota

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just saw this little video on youtube about how fish can smell your hands in the water. Watch and enjoy.

Go to youtube.com and search for "Hans feeding Charlie the Trout"
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Midgeaholic



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 123
Location: Albuquerque

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:08 am    Post subject: Compare midges Reply with quote

Hi Jeremy, we must compare midges sometime, I sounds like your ties are very similar to mine. I use UTC because of it's properties and colors. It also makes great segments when spun. midgeaholic
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Nueces



Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure how much scent an insect would have but I have seen trout in other states where the trout are stocked in "parks" for a put and take situation.

There are a lot of people fishing and cleaning fish. Kind of amazing, when someone cleans a fish, trout downstream will pick up the scent and appear out of no where. Once the cleaning is complete, they vanish. I would think this would be due to the scent in the water as the people are still standing there.

These fish are hatchery fish, so they know people feed them, but they do turn wild pretty quick after being released into a river. Probably most trout in the US are hatchery raised with some natural wild fish around. Deep in their minds, they have to remember something about a hatchery? That food source is cut off immediately when they are released so they have to do what they have been doing since the beginninng of time to survive.

I have seen trout come up to a fly and bump it a couple of times, or turn away, then come back again. I guess it "looks" good but maybe the scent isn't there or there is something else that is turning them off to avoid a strike.

I would guess scent is an important factor and not to have any chemical smells on the fly that may turn them away.
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Pinetop Bob



Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enjoyed reading all of the info on smelling fish.

I am about ready to start soaking by buggers in corn juice overnight if the fishing doesnt improve. Wink
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nymphaholic



Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a Dave Whitlock article I read, he says that he sticks his fly in the river muck and rubs the river scent into it to cover up any scents that may be on the fly.
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paulahenderson



Joined: 01 May 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah even i read,Fish has a very good sense of smell .Thats their primary way of searching food.I have had really good luck catching Salmon and Steelhead by putting Sand-Shrimp scent on my lures or rubber eggs and flies.
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